TriumphStag.NET - Triumph Stag dot Net Forum

Re: Inlet Manifold bold thread repair

J Kuipers — Thu, 23 May 2013 13:19:29 -0400

I recently helicoiled the inlet manifold thread holes too.

Made the decision to go to M8 thread on all but one as it was already helicoiled in the past to the original thread size.

Simples really, with a cordless drill I bores the holes out to 9mm which was very easy. Any noticable resistance meant the drill had reache the bottom. Stopped there as it was deep enough and going further is only a risk of breaking into the water jacket.

Julian

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling

Anonymous User — Thu, 23 May 2013 07:06:22 -0400

I agree completely with the bigger Alternator and 16 inch Fan
approach. I have that and easily coped with 38C in the south of France
except when ascending very long inclines when it was necessary to stop
after a few miles to cool down.

I don't agree about the finned clamp on Filter cooler. I had one and
it fell off mid trip - not clever. Clamp on too hard and you can split
the spin on casing.

Also I am not keen on oil coolers although I admit it may have helped
on those long inclines in France.

However I think a four speed auto would have helped more as my three
speed auto and 3.7:1 axle meant I was running at 3500 rpm and that is
a way to get the engine very hot. At 2700rpm its much cooler and uses
less fuel.

PeterH

Re: Soft-top question

Shazzbat — Thu, 23 May 2013 07:05:22 -0400

Hi Alistair. It seems that you folded the roof down without hooking up the side latches. It then makes difficult to get the roof back up again.

There are no more levers in the soft top. Once you open the cover lid it's only a matter of lifting the roof up, hook the front latches and then slam the back to the rear latch.

Try to get the roof out carefully and next time do not forget to hook up the side latches.

Mario

Re: Inlet Manifold bold thread repair

kenhockey — Thu, 23 May 2013 05:56:58 -0400

In 1993 when I got my Stag I stripped one of the threads first month I had it - so helicoiled all 12 threads - they are still in there.

I have "new" heads ready to go on - I figured after 400,000 kms (310,000 by me) engine deserves them.......but have bought helicoils to go in - as the alloy threads are just too soft.

Just don't drill too deep - use some tape on the drill - or make a ferrule to limit how deep it goes.....

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling

kenhockey — Thu, 23 May 2013 05:46:39 -0400

As said above here in Aust it is hot. My 7 Perth/ Melbourne trips were all in summer - couple of times was 48 degrees. I decided against oil coolers as thought the extra oil plumbing and the chance of a leak were more of an evil than any benefit.

I have heard of VW owners using longer oil filters that carry another half pint of oil and help cooling a bit. Now that we have spin on filters could try that?

I am surprised that (seeing other cars have finned sumps, rocker covers, etc) that no one has marketed a "clamp on" heat sink (like on a transistor) that slides over an extended oil filter - I reckon that would work.

Get a 4 core radiator; 16" fan and a big alternator. That gets a Stag through a 3,500 km trip (leave Friday - arrive Sunday) in 48 degree heat - what more do you need?

RE: [stag] Fuel Overflow Pipes

Anonymous User — Wed, 22 May 2013 00:12:23 -0400

Yes one goes to the front of one carb and the back of the other carb and join
in the middle and go down the front of the block.
Will send a pic when i get back home on Friday

I don't like the setup as if there is any overflow, the petrol flows down the
front of the block....

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stag@digest.net [mailto:owner-stag@digest.net] On Behalf Of Gavin
Nicholson
Sent: Monday, 20 May 2013 10:05 p.m.
To: stag-digest@digest.net
Subject: [stag] Fuel Overflow Pipes

Hi Guys,

No update on the clutch. Will be a few weeks but my continuing attempts to
get my Stag back to original spec has led me to the fuel system (something
easy?!) and I am getting the little bits and pieces that my car is missing.
I have come across the following pic at Rimmers:

[www.rimmerbros.co.uk]

It shows the fuel overflows as if they are both at the front of the carbies
but since the two are identical with one spun around there is one overflow
at the front and one at the back? So how is it supposed to be setup? Where
do those PCR411 and AEU1581A clips actually go? Photos would be handy!

Thanks,
Gavin...

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

Dave Seychell — Mon, 20 May 2013 18:41:07 -0400

I'll second the por15.
I've also sealed up a very rusty tank that came from a donor car. The tank had rusted from inside and out. That was eight years ago. I also used por15 and remain impressed. One of its biggest advantages was that I lined the outer surface with fibre matt using their prescribed technique which became part of the outer surface of the tank, sealing the holes that I could see through. The sealant hardens through the matt and becomes a composite like layer. I don't have any commercial relationship with any product but remain a happy customer. Just don't get the product on a good shirt as it does not let go.

Re: Inlet Manifold bold thread repair

triumphstag1 — Mon, 20 May 2013 17:30:17 -0400

HI Carel

Cant comment on Mk1 or Mk2 manifilds but can give you a heads up on re threading the bolt holes,
I had a go at both, I decided to convert all of the bolts apart from head studs to metric when I restored the heads, all apart from one I used recoil thread inserts, yes you have to watch out that you dont drill through to water channels but plenty of accessories out ther to fit to the drill bit to stop this, the recoils come with special taps and insert key, the tap is designed to bottom out and provide a full thread length in blind holes, you simply drill out tap the hole and using the insert key wind the recoil thread in there may also be a little tool for nraeking the tang off, ie the bit at the bottom of the recoil that is used for winding the insert in with.
As I mentioned only one thread required to be drilled out over size and an insert fitted
Hope that all makes sense

good luck

Inlet Manifold bold thread repair

carelallen — Mon, 20 May 2013 07:09:43 -0400

Hi,

My intlet manifold is leaking at one of the gaskets so I pulled it off yesterday. I have a MKII manifold that I am planning to refit instead of the MKI manifold. The long bolt at the leaking gasket was completely stripped. The other bolds on that head (RH) were all gunked up with nasty looking threads. The bolts on the LH head all seemed good.

I noticed when I pulled the manifold off that all the bolts are 3/8-16 thread vs. the original spec 5/16-18 thread. All the holes in the MKI manoffold that came off of the car have larger clearance holes for the 3/8" bolts. The MKII manifold has smaller clearance holes and will only accept 5/16" bolts unless I drill them out.

I have not had cooling issues so I do not "need" to use the MKII manifold. I am planning to use it since many people have recommended the upgrade.

I searched the Archives and looked at the various thread repair options. I think I have 3 basic options:

1) Helicoil the 3/8" threads that need repair and refit the MKI manifold.

2) Helicoil the 3/8" threads that need repair and fit the MKII manifold with drilled out holes.

3) Use inserts to repair the the holes to original 5/16" size and fit the MKII manifold. Could use Time-Sert inserts designed for repairing oversized holes. The "Big-Sert" 5561 kit seems like it should work using the .620" lenth inserts. I am not sure if there is any concern about trilling too much and getting into the water passage.
Big-Sert inch kits

I have never used helicoils or inserts before and I am a bit nervous about messing this up and then having a useless boat anchor instead of a Stag. It seems pretty straight forward but I would appreciate your input.

Recommendations?

[stag] Fuel Overflow Pipes

Anonymous User — Mon, 20 May 2013 06:06:45 -0400

Hi Guys,

No update on the clutch. Will be a few weeks but my continuing attempts to
get my Stag back to original spec has led me to the fuel system (something
easy?!) and I am getting the little bits and pieces that my car is missing.
I have come across the following pic at Rimmers:

[www.rimmerbros.co.uk]

It shows the fuel overflows as if they are both at the front of the carbies
but since the two are identical with one spun around there is one overflow
at the front and one at the back? So how is it supposed to be setup? Where
do those PCR411 and AEU1581A clips actually go? Photos would be handy!

Thanks,
Gavin...

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling reply

sujitroy — Sat, 18 May 2013 06:47:49 -0400

Hello Stuart,

When I first bought my Stag 10 years back, the gauge ran hot.
I installed an oil cooler, and an electric fan. I didn't see much of a
difference in temp. reading. I removed the oil cooler not much later. Only
after I installed a rad. cowl and deflector from Glenn, did things improve.
Instead of my '71 mk1 gauge sitting at about 4pm (gauge almost on H, it sits
at 5pm when driven on long freeway journeys.

I still have the electric fan.
Nor. CA. Cupertino.

Sujit

________________________________
From:
Stuart Greenwood
To: stag-digest@digest.net
Sent:
Tuesday, May 14, 2013 2:34 PM
Subject: [stag] Stag Cooling reply

Thanks to
all who replied to my post
I agree that it would be better to fit
a Mk II
inlet manifold but I have just
rebuilt my engine and installed it in
the car
and I'm reluctant to disturb the
inlet manifold even though the
engine has
not yet run.
I am going to try to fit a 12v normally closed
solenoid valve in
the bypas line
so that I can switch the bypass flow off
when the thermostat
opens.
Before the engine blew a head gasket in 2003 ( yes
it's taken me 10
years, 8
years thinking about it and 2 years doing it) I was
running the
engine with the
bypass closed off and two 1/8 ins holes drilled
in the
thermostat to allow water

to circulate before the thermostat opened.
The
engine was a little slow to warm
up but in SoCal this is no problem....
it
would be no good in a cold climate.

I was a bit disappointed that nobody
on
the list had any experience with oil
coolers but I do agree with Peter
Howell
that a cooler would only help a little
since most of the heat is in
the
water.

It's a pity that there is no information on exactly how the
water
circulates
through the engine block, heads and manifold. As Randall
implies
drawing water
off the rear of the right hand head might do more harm
than
good.

Stuart, I live in Rancho Penasquitos which is up interstate 15
about 20
miles
north of

downtown San Diego and about 10 miles south of
Escondido.
Sounds like you live
mcuh further north
Stuart A Greenwood

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 23:48:42 -0400

I fitted an oil cooler with a T-Stat several years ago as my Stag ran
just under the red mark during the summer. I have also fitted a front
spoiler (TR6) and replaced the viscous coupling and install a later
plastic fan ( my car had a steel 13 blade fan when I bought it). Each
of these improvements move the temp needle about one needle width
cooler. Now it runs straight up most of the time and never gets too
close to the red zone even on the hottest of days.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

Nathan — Fri, 17 May 2013 22:12:49 -0400

I had problems with my brother's Spitfire 1500 tank, which had sat for most of its life and had LOTS of powdered rust inside (no leaks). We were clogging 2 filters per week when we first started using it regularly.

I removed the tank and cleaned it electrolytically with a galvanised bolt, wire, battery charger and bicarb soda... something like this except I dangled the bolt inside the tank as the cathode for 2 hours...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFvvYKPgB78

Perfect. Removed all the rust but didn't touch the solid metal. Highly recommended for anyone before soldering / patching / internally coating.

Nathan

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 21:29:58 -0400

Hi Guys,

My tank had the usual age related rust and pinholes, weeping a small amount
of fuel into the boot area so it smelled of petrol. I considered cleaning
and soldering , but the issue was mainly from moisture inside the tank.
Which soldering won't fix. So really needed an internal sealer. So about 10
years ago I used the POR15 Tank seal kit and it work great.

[www.por15.com]

The kit has everything you need, including cleaner, a pre-treating metal
stabiliser, an internal tank sealer and an external tank coating. The
instructions are clear and step you through the process.

The internal tank sealer actually foams up to force itself into all the
cavities and coats the inside of the tank with a strong silver membrane. So
once cleaned and pre-treated you have to tape over all the pin holes and
seal up the inlet/outlet pipes and the gauge sensor hole, then poor it down
the filler and swirl it round. It then activates and does its work. You then
poor out the excess, which once activated cannot be stored. It is single use
only. However, It is amazing stuff. I canned the excess, but it popped the
lid and then hardened into a tin sized plug of hard plastic.

Then you carefully coat the outside with the Black POR15. It penetrates any
residual scale and seems to even work into the metal. Again it is
environment activated and finishes to a nice strong back gloss. Watch out
for dust and brush bubbles.

If required they also have a putty, which I bought thinking the holes would
not seal but did not need it.

They provide safety instructions and you do need to be careful when using as
it won't wash off the skin. It has a great ability to penetrate scale and
metal and seems to almost go into the metal crystals. So it does the same on
skin and you if you get some on your skin you virtually need to grow it out.

POR15 is magic on rust and for metal protection. I have used on several
projects and it is easy and lasts. The finish is better than two pack and is
virtually indestructible.

So that was 10 years ago and it looks like I did it yesterday.

Regards,

Joe

Sydney, Australia

Re: [stag] Soft-top question

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 14:15:09 -0400

Two people working from both sides of the car would probably help.

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red
pethier@comcast.net
[www.flickr.com]
[www.flickr.com]
[www.mnautox.com]
[www.mntriumphs.org]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Howells"
> To: "Alistair"
> Cc: stag@digest.net
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:19:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [stag] Soft-top question
> The back hoop or rail has dropped out of the retaining clips.
> It has then fallen towards the rear and gets caught under the tonneau
> edge.
> So to get it all out you will need to lift the lowest hoop up to the
> back of the B post hoop which should pull it forward, and then you can
> lift the whole thing up and out. You need a good position and strong
> hands.
> The go to work on those over centre hook plates to make sure they hold
> the back rail up in future.
> Peter H

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling

Hughesy — Fri, 17 May 2013 06:37:57 -0400

I have fitted an oil cooler with a thermostat included in the sandwich take off valve fitted between the block and a spin on oil filter adapter. It was not purchased from Rimmers but from the USA, can't remember which one now. The main reason I fitted it was that even though it may not help the water it certainly helps the viscosity and performance of the oil. In Australia during summer the water temp can get to 95C and that means oil is likely to be about 120C, ie, the point where mineral oils starts to dramatically drop off. The oil cooler helps keep the oil temperature down. I also run full synthetic oil which holds it viscosity to about 135C. I think this is also one reason why Stags engine lifes can sometimes be shorter than expected, the oil is just too hot....

Re: [stag] Soft-top question

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 05:00:34 -0400

The back hoop or rail has dropped out of the retaining clips.
It has then fallen towards the rear and gets caught under the tonneau edge.
So to get it all out you will need to lift the lowest hoop up to the
back of the B post hoop which should pull it forward, and then you can
lift the whole thing up and out. You need a good position and strong
hands.
The go to work on those over centre hook plates to make sure they hold
the back rail up in future.
Peter H

Re: [stag] Stag Cooling reply

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 04:14:12 -0400

Its a very good drawing but there is a slight error.
The pump sends coolant into the block which then feeds the heads.
So we need a big black arrow like the one at the rear of the heads
going from block to head.

PeterH

[stag] Stag Digest Advertisers: regular posting

Anonymous User — Fri, 17 May 2013 01:41:04 -0400

For information on how to support the stag-digest with advertising, contact
Richard Welty, rwelty@krusty-motorsports.com

If you are a subscriber who wishes to help support the list, contributions
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Re: [stag] Stag Cooling reply

carelallen — Thu, 16 May 2013 22:16:08 -0400

Stuart,

Here is a diagram of the coolant flow attributed to John Wreford. I think I got this from someone on this list.

Here is a link to the Picasa album:
[picasaweb.google.com]

I hope this helps to answer you questions.

I have a MKI inlet manifold that is leaking. One of the bolts sheared off. I have a MKII manifold that I got with some spare parts I bought. Is the prevailing wisdom to pull the MKI manifold and replace it with the MKII manifold? Do I need to be concerned about the MKII manifold fitting without getting into head removal?

Soft-top question

Alistair — Thu, 16 May 2013 16:29:43 -0400

I have a '73 Stag project which has been progressing very slowly. I finally started work on the rear suspension and brakes last weekend, and in trying to get to the top shock absorber nut, found that I must have stowed the roof incorrectly. Trying to get it back up again to access the shock absorber, I find that the lower edge at the back of the roof (below the plastic window) won't fit past the hinge. I don't recall forcing it down, but I could be mistaken. The car sat for 30 years before I bought it, with the hard top in place, so the hood was folded. A while ago I removed the hard top and pulled the soft top up. I then decided to fold it back to let the smell escape from the interior (thanks, rodents!), but did so without any instructions. Any suggestions to get the roof back up? Is there a lever or catch I am missing? I would ideally like to avoid any damage as the roof is in surprisingly good condition!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.
Alistair

Re: Found this on u tube

SapphireBlueStag — Thu, 16 May 2013 15:40:11 -0400

The cruel joke is this is just when Triumph was to start to build junk.

[stag] Re: stag-digest V4 #4400

Anonymous User — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:53:54 -0400

unsuscribe

[stag] administrivia: notes on using this list

Anonymous User — Wed, 15 May 2013 01:55:21 -0400

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Found this on u tube

triumphstag1 — Wed, 15 May 2013 01:21:00 -0400

HI Thought you would enjoy this.
Looks like a PR film made about the Triumph factory and their design testing and build of Triumph cars.
Amazing to see all sorts of Triumphs rolling off the production line

[www.youtube.com]

enjoy

[stag] Stag Cooling reply

sagreenwood — Tue, 14 May 2013 17:37:24 -0400

Thanks to all who replied to my post
I agree that it would be better to fit
a Mk II inlet manifold but I have just
rebuilt my engine and installed it in
the car and I'm reluctant to disturb the
inlet manifold even though the
engine has not yet run.
I am going to try to fit a 12v normally closed
solenoid valve in the bypas line
so that I can switch the bypass flow off
when the thermostat opens.
Before the engine blew a head gasket in 2003 ( yes
it's taken me 10 years, 8
years thinking about it and 2 years doing it) I was
running the engine with the
bypass closed off and two 1/8 ins holes drilled
in the thermostat to allow water

to circulate before the thermostat opened.
The engine was a little slow to warm
up but in SoCal this is no problem....
it would be no good in a cold climate.

I was a bit disappointed that nobody
on the list had any experience with oil
coolers but I do agree with Peter
Howell that a cooler would only help a little
since most of the heat is in
the water.

It's a pity that there is no information on exactly how the
water circulates
through the engine block, heads and manifold. As Randall
implies drawing water
off the rear of the right hand head might do more harm
than good.

Stuart, I live in Rancho Penasquitos which is up interstate 15
about 20 miles
north of

downtown San Diego and about 10 miles south of
Escondido. Sounds like you live
mcuh further north
Stuart A Greenwood

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

tr3driver — Tue, 14 May 2013 13:30:47 -0400

---- Peter Howells wrote:
> How did you solder sheet metal to the bottom of the fuel tank
>
> Do you clear paint and heat the tank with a blowtorch around the
> solder area then add the repair and solder the edges?

First step was to make certain there was no liquid fuel inside, or even enough fumes to burn. I got that by repeatedly filling the tank with water until it overflowed, and letting the overflow continue as long as I could see a film on the water coming out. When I could no longer smell fuel inside, I deemed it clean enough. Then I left it out in the sun to dry for several hours and checked again for smell.

Then I wire-brushed and sanded to remove all the paint from the area and as much rust as I could. You have to have clean bare metal for solder to stick to it. Heated the area using a propane torch and "buttered" it with solder, then repeated the process with the patch. Finally I laid the patch in place and heated both it and the tank until the solder flowed together. The process is called "sweat soldering", commonly used to join copper water pipes.

The patch was only large enough to cover perhaps 1/2" beyond the visible pin-holes; I carried the solder layer another 1/2" or so beyond the patch in all directions to cover any almost-pinholes that I didn't see.

Then of course I painted the entire outside of the tank.

Randall

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

Anonymous User — Tue, 14 May 2013 13:06:49 -0400

How did you solder sheet metal to the bottom of the fuel tank

Do you clear paint and heat the tank with a blowtorch around the
solder area then add the repair and solder the edges?

PeterH

Re: Fuel Tank Sealing

tr3driver — Mon, 13 May 2013 17:45:36 -0400

FWIW I repaired the tank in my TR3A back in about 1985 from the outside, using ordinary solder and a piece cut from a "tin" can as a patch. The car got wrecked in 2005 and the tank was still holding fuel when I finally parted it out around 2010.

I'm guessing you don't have the problem, but around here the available fuel contains ethanol. Lots of folks were most unhappy when they found that older "slushing" compounds wouldn't stand up to it.

Re: [stag] Fuel Tank Sealing

ShaneR — Mon, 13 May 2013 10:27:20 -0400

I can vouch for this process. I used the US version of RENU 7 years ago and when the tank came back it looked brand new. I had pin holes everywhere and this process fixed them and they gave me a lifetime warranty.

ShaneR